“If anyone in seventeenth-century America can be considered genocidal, it should be the Iroquois, rather than the French or English.” ~ Jeff Fynn-Paul ~
The Brutality of Ancient American Tribe – The Iroquois and what tactics did they employ? This video explores the historical Iroquois Confederacy, also known as the Haudenosaunee, and their formidable strategies in warfare and diplomacy. Join us as we delve into the brutal and sophisticated methods used by the Mohawk, Oneida, Onondaga, Cayuga, and Seneca tribes, along with the later addition of the Tuscarora.
Thomas Sowell discusses the Iroquois Confederacy.
I did some reading on vacation and wanted to excerpt a very small portion of what I read:
In North America, the history of Indian tribes shows a similar pattern of warfare with little evident “moderation.” On the contrary, victorious tribes often found it expedient to exterminate enemy tribes altogether, so as to avoid the problem of retributive attacks. Women and children of defeated tribes were carted off and enslaved to ensure no continuation of enemy bloodlines and traditions.
Iroquois history begins with the tale of Hiawatha, a semi-mythical leader who was remarkable insofar as he was a peacemaker—the implication being that most other tribal leaders were not. The archaeology of the period before Hiawatha has revealed many warrior skeletons riddled with arrows and/or hacked into pieces, indicating that violent warfare was normative in these regions before contact with Europeans.
The seventeenth century, the first for which we have written records, shows the Iroquois Confederacy maintaining an uneasy truce among its own membership, but only insofar as this enabled them to intensify warfare against their traditional enemies the Huron and the Algonquin. These so-called Beaver Wars lasted for many decades; they witnessed the destruction of the Wendat people, the Neutral Indians, the fabled Mohicans, and many other tribes.
Faced with the threat of what the modern Left should acknowledge as genocidal warfare, many of the Iroquois’ enemies were forced to flee to French, Dutch, and English settlements for protection, where their descendants eventually took up farming, converted to Christianity, or otherwise assimilated into the dominant culture. They gave up their vaunted “traditional” lifestyle because they preferred a peaceful life as a farmer to the omnipresent threat of death by tomahawk. Later in the eighteenth century, a few thousand Iroquois were to visit similar grisly fates on dozens of other neighbors, until only a handful of Native Americans remained in the entire territory circling the Great Lakes.
[….]
The same process occurred farther west in the Great Lakes region, where the Five Nations territory proved to be continuously in flux. The Five Nations group is thought to have been formed only a generation or two before French explorers contacted them, and the early years of French settlement in the region witnessed a number of horrific (dare I say “genocidal”) encounters. In 1649, the Iroquois took advantage of the weakened position of the Huron people to practically wipe them off the North American map.
“About twelve hundred Iroquois came,” a Huron remembered. “They took their anger out on the Fathers: they stripped them naked; they tore their fingernails off. They rained blows on their shoulders with sticks, on their kidneys and stomach and legs and face, and no part of their body was spared this torment.”
In the process of the Beaver Wars, the Iroquois “stole” land from the Hurons and other tribes equal in size to their original territory in New York State. Later on, the Iroquois continued their imperialist campaigns, ranging far to the south and west of their original territories. They destroyed the Erie Indians and the famed Mohicans, and conquered several other tribes. In the years around 1700, they ousted the Sioux Indians from West Virginia and Kentucky, who were forced by Iroquois aggression to vacate the land forever and to settle farther west on more marginal ground. The Iroquois thereafter claimed the Sioux hunting grounds for their own.
By 1780, the Iroquois Nation had stolen the equivalent of at least six times their original territory, all from neighboring tribes. From their original base in New York State, they had emptied much of Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Ohio, Indiana, and much of southern Ontario of its former inhabitants. Whether or not one ascribes the Iroquois success to the presence of European firearms, the fact is the Iroquois, when given enough power, proved more than willing to permanently extinguish every Indian tribe they could get their hands on—this despite the efforts of the French and English to protect many of the Iroquois’ victims.
If anyone in seventeenth-century America can be considered genocidal, it should be the Iroquois, rather than the French or English. It is believed that the intra-Indian wars of attrition, which resulted in the expulsion of many tribes from the Great Lakes region, so fatally weakened Native populations in the area, that they had little choice but to abandon most of this land to American settler expansion in subsequent decades.
Farther west, groups such as the Apache are famous for displacing and dispossessing dozens of tribes from their ancestral lands within living memory of the whites’ arrival. The Apache are thought by archaeologists to have originated in Alaska and then rampaged southwards. Conquering and intimidating as they went, like a group of New World Huns or Vandals, the Apache finally reached the region of Texas by the time the first Spanish arrived in the early sixteenth century. From the Spanish, the Apaches received horses and guns, which enticed them to give up their semi-agricultural lifestyles and start hunting buffalo full. The irony is that many of these Indians only began hunting riding horses and buffalo because contact with Europeans enabled them to do so.
Meanwhile, shortly after 1700, a push by the Comanches displaced many Apache Indians, who in turn put pressure on the Pueblo Indians, raiding them and despoiling them of their own food supplies. The fierce Comanche went on to displace, assimilate, and/or annihilate dozens of other tribes and smaller groups in a series of well-documented attacks. Neighboring tribes feared them as a merciless scourge, and rightly so: like most other Native American tribes they routinely killed babies, tortured men, raped women, and enslaved children as they conquered.
Jeff Fynn-Paul, Not Stolen: The Truth About European Colonialism in the New World (Nashville, TN: Bombardier Books, 2023), 141-142, 186-188.
The following video is pretty good. He falters a bit in some history, but the presentation and humor are worth it:
Join me on a journey to uncover the untold story of “The Beaver Wars” in this captivating historical exploration. Together, we’ll delve deep into the tumultuous period of North American history, revealing the causes, consequences, and lasting impacts of this little-known conflict.
During the 17th century, rival indigenous nations clashed in a struggle for control over the lucrative fur trade, igniting what would become known as “The Beaver Wars.” We’ll unravel the socio-political dynamics at play, the strategic alliances formed, and the consequences across the region.
From the initial skirmishes to the full-scale warfare that engulfed the Great Lakes and Ohio Valley regions, we’ll explore the complex web of alliances, betrayals, and shifting power dynamics that characterized this pivotal era.
Together, we’ll shed light on this often overlooked chapter of history, exploring the cultural, economic, and environmental ramifications of “The Beaver Wars.” Gain insight into the legacy of this conflict and its enduring impact on North America.
Don’t miss out on this enlightening journey through history. I encourage you to like, comment, and subscribe to my channel for more fascinating insights into the past. Your support helps me continue to bring these stories to life.
BLACK HILLS
Activists suggest that all “colonized” land should be returned to the previous owners. Is it really that simple? Michael Knowles has thoughts.
Here is a quick blurb by Dinesh D’Souza discussing the American Indian battles over territory (land). Gruesome warfare, rape, pillaging, etc., were all part of these “land-grabs.”
The following are clipped from my debates in 2001, 2005, a supplement I posted in 2013 to a men’s group, and a response to a question asked by a friend in 2018 (not in any order)
2018
BTW, as a side note, everything YEC’ers (young earth creationists) say happened in this mega flood and is derided by most until recently:
Many also talk of a near global flood on Mars… or features of what young earth creationists discuss about the features involved in the Noahic Flood. (Which are rejected on Earth but not Mars.)
Fassett, C.I. and Head III, J.W., The Timing Of Martian Valley Network Activity: Constraints From Buffered Crater Counting, Icarus 195:61-89, 2008.
Rodriguez, J.A.P., Kargel, J.S., Baker, V.R., Gulick, V.C., Berman, D.C., Fairen, A.G., Linares, R., Zarroca, M., Yan, J., Miyamoto, H., and Glines, N., Martian Outflow Channels: How Did Their Course Aquifers Form, And Why Did They Drain So Rapidly? Scientific Reports 5(13404): 1-9, 2015.
Wang, C-y, Manga, M., and Wong, A., Floods On Mars Released From Groundwater By Impact, Icarus 175:551-555, 2005.
Toon, 0.B., Segura, T., and Zahnle, K., The Formation Of Martian River Valleys By Impacts, Annual Review of Earth and Planetary Science 38: 303-302, 2010.
2005
Now, I want to, as a fellow believer, do what the scripture tells us to, “Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.” (2 timothy 4:2) that’s what I want to do, is exhort you in the way of scripture. Since this is my post – Seang30 – I will hopefully be allowed some freedoms. But first, let me write down that scripture for you from another translation, keep in mind that Timothy is telling all Christians this: “Herald and preach the word! Keep your sense of urgency [stand by, be at hand and ready], whether the opportunity seems to be favorable or unfavorable. [Whether it is convenient or inconvenient, whether it is welcome or unwelcome, you as preacher of the Word are to show people in what way their lives are wrong.] And convince them, rebuking and correcting, warning and urging and encouraging them, being unflagging and inexhaustible in patience and teaching.” okay, I think that makes that verse clear in case it wasn’t before. On to the “meat” of the topic.
It may indeed be possible for a Christian to be an evolutionist (either through ignorance or deliberate disobedience), but evolution can itself cannot be Christian, for obvious reasons that Christ was not an evolutionist. Consequently, there is no such thing as Christian evolution.
Jesus Was A Creationist/Creator
He [Jesus] accepted the compatibility of the two supposedly contradictory accounts of creation in Genesis 1 & 2: “Have you not read that He… made them male and female [quoting Gen, 1:27], and said, ‘For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and, they twain shall be one flesh?’” [quoting Gen. 2:24] (from Matthew 19:4-5 – all quotes, above and below, are Jesus)
He believed that the creation of man and women was at the beginning of the creation, not 4 billion years after the earth’s beginning and 15 billion years after the big bang: “From the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.” (Mark 10:6)
He believed that the cosmos actually had a beginning, and that matter was not eternal: “Such as was not since the beginning of the world [Greek – kosmos] to this time.” (Matthew 24:21)
He believed that it was God who did the creating, not some natural process: “From the beginning of the creation which God created…” (Mark 13:19)
The Apostles Were Creationist/And Acknowledged The Creator
Paul, Peter, Matthew, Luke, etc., etc., were all creationists’. Because they knew Christ was Creator and they recorded His view on the matter. I can give more Bible references, but the point is to say that you’re a Christian means you are a Christ follower or want to be “like” Christ. We have His words and His theology in the form of the Bible, so I suggest, in an “unflagging and inexhaustible in patience and teaching” that you take another look at this whole topic, with patience and understanding. I will end with the apostles and Christ’s testimony of the flood. In addition, remember that if you don’t believe in a flood as Christ describes, than you are calling God a liar.
The lord Jesus Christ himself, as well as Peter (2 Peter 2:5 and 3:6) and the author of Hebrews, probably Paul (Hebrews 11:7), confirmed that the Flood at least destroyed all mankind. Christ said, “the flood came, and destroyed them all” (Luke 17:27). The modern system of geology and archaeology, which the local-flood theory tries to accommodate, certainly includes a worldwide distribution of mankind long before any possible Biblical date for the Flood. A flood that was anthropologically universal would certainly have to be geographically universal.
God’s unequivocal promise never again to send the Flood (Genesis 9:11) has been broken repeatedly if the Noachian flood were only a local flood. Therefore, the local-flood theory not only repudiates the plain meaning of the Biblical record of the Flood, but even changes God with breaking His promise!
The Scriptural record says the Flood covered the tops of the highest mountains (Genesis 7:19-20) and that this situation prevailed until ten months (Genesis 8:5) after the flood began.
2001
(Quote you)
“It seemed weird to me that the Bible was the only source to mention a flood that was supposed to be world wide. It seemed more likely that it was a contained flooding.”
This is a false statement that anthropology has shown false.
~ Commonality of flood stories found in over 270 historical documents and stories from ancient cultures ~
a) Humans are guilty of transgression.
b) A God sends a flood as punishment.
c) Instructions are sent to an individual to build a craft.
d) The instructions include ensuring the survival of all species.
e) The flood destroys the old race.
f) Most include a bird being sent out prior to “departure.”
g) Most tell of a sacrifice being made to the God who sent the flood
h) After the flood, a new, less sinful race emerges to repopulate the earth.
HAWAII: Long after the death of Kuniuhonna, the first man, the world became a wicked, terrible place to live. There was one good man left; his name was Nu-u [close to Noah]. He made a great canoe with a house on it and filled it with animals. The waters rose up over all the earth and killed all the people. Only Nu-u and his family were saved. CHINA: ancient Chinese writings refer to a violent catastrophe that happened to the earth. They report that the entire land was flooded. The water went up to the highest mountains. One ancient Chinese classic called the “Hihking” tells the story of Fuhi [close to Noah] whom the Chinese consider to be the father of their civilization. This story records that Fuhi, his wife, three sons, and three daughters [in-law] escaped the great flood. He and his family were the only people left alive on earth. After the great flood they repopulated the earth. An ancient temple in China has a wall painting that shows Fuhi’s boat in raging waters. Dolphins are swimming around the boat and a dove with an olive branch in its beak flying toward it. The Chinese word for boat is literally a drawing of a boat with eight people in it. TOLTEC: found in the histories of the Toltec Indians of ancient Mexico is a story of the first world that lasted 1,716 years and was destroyed by a great flood that covered even the highest mountains. Their story tells of a few men who escape the destruction in a “toptlipetlocali,” which means a closed chest. Following the great flood, these men began to multiply and build a very high “zacuali,” or a great tower, to provide a safe place if the world were destroyed again. [*Note ~ most of the cultures in the 270 plus stories have a story of all races coming from one geographical area. All races having the same language, etc.. The commonality of the boomerang, bow and arrow, the ziggurats, etc., in all cultures are a testament to a common background.] However, the languages became confused, so different language groups wandered to other parts of the world. The Toltecs claim they started as a family of seven friends and their wives who spoke the same language. They crossed great waters, lived in caves, and wandered 104 years till they came to Hue Hue Tlapalan (southern Mexico). The story reports that this was 520 years after the great flood. BABYLONIAN: one of the most ancient accounts of the “Great Flood,” also called the Deluge, is a tablet inscription found in Babylonia. The Tablet referred to an older tablet from which this was copied, but only fragments have been found of that older copy, which was handed down from a previous king of Babylon. That previous king could very well have been King Amraphel (Genesis 14:1), who was one of the early kings of Babylon after the flood. The Babylonian gods told a man to build a boat and fill it with his family, property, cattle, wild beasts, and food [big boat]. The coming rains would destroy life on earth. After only six days the rain stopped, then this Babylonian “Noah” sent out a dove, a swallow, and a raven. When he left the boat, he sacrificed an animal. GREECE: in an ancient Greek story a man made a box into which he put all the things necessary for life. When he and his wife shut themselves in the box, the Greek god Zeus caused a great rain to fall, everyone died except those who climbed to the tops of very high mountains. For nine days and nights the man and his wife were tossed to and fro on the sea, finally the box landed and the man and his wife departed. INDIA: An early story from India tells of a fish that warned a man named Manu [close to Noah] about a flood that would kill everything. Like the Biblical story, Manu was told to build a boat, and he alone survived the flood. NORTH AMERICA: In North America, the Lenni Lenape Indians told of a time when a powerful snake made all people wicked. The snake caused water to destroy everything (via his wicked influence). But on an island was a man named Manabozho, the grandfather of all men [like “grandpa” Noah]. He was saved by riding on the back of a great turtle. SOUTH AMERICA: From Peru a story comes about a shepherd and his family. They noticed one day that their llamas were sad, so they studied to find out why. The stars told about a great flood which was coming. The shepherd and his family climbed to the top of a mountain. The flood waters came and the mountain began to float. The shepherd and his family were the only survivors. THE PACIFIC: Even the islands of the Pacific have flood stories. One of these explains how a fisherman got his fishing hook caught in the hair of the ocean god. The god awoke and decided that people were evil and should be destroyed. The fisherman begged for forgiveness, so the god told him to go to an island where he would be safe from the flood he would send to wipe out all men.
FLOOD LEGENDS ~ in story fashion
(Greek legend from Syria recorded by Lucian) – “Not one of us now living is a descendant from the original race of man. We, numerous as we are, are no other than a second race sprung from nucalian (< spelled wrong [this is the Noah of this legend]). The original peoples were full of pride and insolence. Unfaithful to their promises, inhospitable to strangers… death to supplicates.”
(Hawaiian legend) – “Long after the time of Kuniuhonna, the first man, the earth became wicked and callous of the worship of the gods. One man was righteous, Nu-u.”
(Babylonian) – “the god Cronos (< spelled wrong) had come to him [‘Noah’] in a dream that all men would perish by a flood.”
(Greek legend from Syria recorded by Lucian) – “Nucalian (<spelled wrong) put himself with his wives and his children in a great chest. And thereupon, there came to him bores and horses and lion and serpent and all kinds of land dwelling animals. He took them in.”
(Ancient Indians of Cuba) – “an old man built a great ship and went into it with his family and an abundance of animals.”
(Hawaiian) – “Nu-u made a great canoe with a house on it and stored it with food, taking animals and plants into it.”
(Aztec legend) – “But before the flood began, god warned the man Nota (< spelled wrong) and his wife Nina (< spelled wrong) saying, ‘Hollow the great cypress into which you shall enter, the waters shall near the sky,’ and when god had shut them in…”
(Fiji islands) – “…the angry god gathered the dark clouds together and caused them to burst, pouring streams of water down upon the doomed earth.”
(Greek legend from Syria recorded by Lucian) – “The earth suddenly opened its lucids (< spelled wrong, I think) and heavy showers of rain fell… the rivers swelled”.
(Latin poet Ovid) – “The rivers breaking out, rushed through the open plains and bore away together the standing corn, the graves, flocks, men, houses and temples… floated like trunks of trees the corpses about. Like the spawns of fish they now fill the sea.”
(Fiji) – “towns, hills, and mountains were slowly submerged”.
(Latin poet Ovid) – “and now the sea and land had no mark of distinction. Everything was now ocean. The wolf swims with the sheep.”
(Athapascan Indians) – “Every day it rained, every night it rained. The sky fell. The land was not. Animals of all kinds drowned, there was no land.”
(Ovid) – “The wandering bird having long sought for land where it might be allowed to alight, its wings fail, falling into the sea”.
(Greek legend from Syria recorded by Lucian) – “Except Nucalian (< spelled wrong), who on account of his virtue and piety was saved to give birth to a new race”.
(Transylvania) – “After a year, the waters began to recede”.
(Persia) – “A violent wind then came and dried up the ground”.
(Mechoachen Indians) – “He sent out a crow, which at first did not return; staying to feed on the dead bodies. But afterwards, returned with a green branch”.
Firstly, the most basic thing one can say about Genesis is that its authors intended it to come across as literal. James Barr, Oriel Professor of the interpretation of the Holy Scripture, Oxford University, England, in a letter to David C.C. Watson (23 April 1984), stated the following:
The following is an extract from a letter written in 1984 by Professor James Barr, who was at the time Regius Professor of Hebrew at the University of Oxford. Professor Barr said,
“Probably, so far as l know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Gen. 1-11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that (a) creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience (b) the figures contained in the Genesis genealogies provided by simple addition a chronology from the beginning of the world up to later stages in the biblical story (c) Noah’s flood was understood to be world-wide and extinguish all human and animal life except for those in the ark. Or, to put it negatively, the apologetic arguments which suppose the ‘days’ of creation to be long eras of time, the figures of years not to be chronological, and the flood to be a merely local Mesopotamian flood, are not taken seriously by any such professors, as far as I know.”
Thus, according to the Regius Professor of Hebrew at Oxford, Tim is completely deceived in his wish to read Genesis figuratively. Let it be emphasized that according to professor Barr, virtually every professor at a world-class universities believes Gen. 1-11 are intended to convey the six 24 hour day creation and universality of Noah’s flood. (Planet Preterist)
Barr, despite not believing Genesis’ literal sense, does however, understand what the Hebrew so clearly taught. It was only the perceived need to harmonize the Bible with the alleged [evolutionary] age of the earth which led people to think anything different of the easy reading of Genesis—it was nothing to do with the text itself.
So the memory points can look like this:
• One of the leading Hebrew professors of our day; • From Oxford University; • Who did not believe in the literalness of Genesis; • Teaches that the language and cultural times; • Demand a literal reading of the text; • Whether you agree with the outcome of that reading or not.
Simple enough. If one kinda’ remembers these points they can communicate the text’s meaning in a way that shows that insertion of long ages is a newer phenomena, not something warranted by the text itself. Here is an opening of a debate between a theistic evolutionist and a young earth creationist that makes clear the theological implications of anything but the Biblical position (the entire debate can be found HERE):
While theistic evolution is almost at complete odds with the Gospel message, we should understand that the union between man-and-God is the acceptance of Jesus, not these particulars.
